Coccidiosis ... ?

[walter]

Afternoon everyone. This is my first post..... (oops ! I also posted this in another section as well... sorry)

I have a batch of chickens that are about one year old.... I'm left with three Light Sussex and two Rhode Islands..... I did have two Wellsummers as well and this is where my story starts.....
The first Wellsummer died about three months ago, and I think it had organ failure as it's crop had dark patches on it and one wing drooped as if it had had a stroke. Several weeks later I found it dead.
The second Wellsummer had symptons such as hunched posture, ruffled feathers, diarrhea, no energy and more often than not just resting. It was like this for a couple of weeks until I eventually found it collapsed, so I ended it's misery.
Now one of my Rhode Islands for the last couple of weeks seems to have the same symptons as above. I've never taken a chicken to the vet before, but yesterday i decided to take her. I live in the London Borough of Bromley, so I don't think the vets gets much exposure to chickens here. Certainly the vet didn't fill me with confidence about what was actually the matter with her or how to deal with it. The vet said that it could be coccidiosis or maybe something else. They didn't have the treatment available there and then for coccidiosis (they said it was called Baycox), but they could give her some other antibiotics that might deal with it. The vet then said that if we did this that we could never again eat any of her eggs. I decided to come away with out the offered antibiotics and seek further advice.

I have isolated her now. She's drinking and she does have an appetite for nice food. I gave her strawberries, yoghurt and bread. She doesn't seem to want to eat layers pellets. Her comb is quite red but smaller than the other Rhode Island bird. She seems quite bright eyed but constantly in the resting position.

I normally feed the birds layers pellets boosted with whatever is appropriate that comes out of our kitchen. I have wormed them recently with Flubenvet and I give them Apple Cider Vinegar once a month.

My question is.... Is there anything that I could use to help with these symptons ?...... Thank you.

 

[Marigold]

Hi Walter, and welcome to the Forum. I'm sorry your first post is such a problematic one.
Its hard to say what might be wrong with your bird without actually seeing her, but you are right about your vet not being familiar with poultry, I'm afraid. You may be interested in this article about coccidiosis, which may give you some more information to go on.
http://poultrykeeper.com/digestive-system-problems/coccidiosis-in-backyard-chickens
Coccidiosis usually attacks chicks and growers rather than older birds, who tend to have developed some immunity to it. Although it does have diarrhoea as a symptom, in cocci this will have blood in it, which you don't mention in relation to your hen. So maybe cocci is not a very likely cause, though I may be wrong. In any case, chickens are very good at hiding symptoms when they feel ill because a weakling bird is often bullied and attacked by the others, so by the time a hen gets to the stage you describe, she is pretty seriously ill. I don't know whether her symptoms relate to whatever killed your Welsummers, ie whether you have some kind of infection passed around within your flock, but it does sound as if the second Welsummer might have had something similar to your RIR, and that it's an internal infection. Is she laying, or when did she stop laying ? Could she possibly be eggbound, or have a blocked crop? Did you get all the hens from the same breeder at the same time?
I'm glad you've wormed them with Flubenvet, at least worms can be ruled out as a contributory cause. I wouldn't advise giving bread as its nutritionally poor for hens and may cause a crop blockage. You could try dried mealworms, hulled sunflower seeds, or mashed up cooked egg as a high protein substitute. I hope someone else can give you more advice, it's very worrying for you I'm sure.
Just to avoid confusion in any replies you may get, I'm going to delete the duplicate post you made in the Welcome section, now you've found the Chickens Health section.

 

[walter]

Thanks for your reply Marigold....
In response to your points,I haven't noticed any blood in her poo. She isn't laying now & I'm not really sure when she stopped as she's been in with the other birds so it's hard for me to tell.
How do I tell if she's eggbound or have a blocked crop, and would these cause diarrrhoea ?
I did buy all the birds together in one unit as point of lay from the same breeder.
Thanks for the advice bout using bread. I'll stop doing that.
Thanks... Walter.

 

[chrismahon]

It sounds like it could be sour crop Walter and giving them bread is possibly the cause. It either rots in the crop overnight, or blocks up the crop and rots in a lump at the bottom. Her crop will be soggy (possibly with a solid lump in it) and hot and her poos will be watery and with a slimy consistency. You would need to put her onto a water only diet for 24 -48 hours and massage her crop regularly to break it all up and work it through. You may need to administer the water with a syringe down her throat in 10mL doses. Important she has no food, as that just fuels the problem. You may notice she picks up very quickly, but you must continue the treatment until you are sure the crop is flushed through. A day or so afterwards you could give her probiotic yoghurt in a 5 ml shot.

We have one in 'sick bay' at the moment with this problem. In our case I think it is the heat and lack of movement meant the crop didn't empty and the food rotted within.

 

[walter]

I've always had a problem identifying where the crop is when I've felt the birds.... If you follow the neck line down, is it quite low at chest level.... Thanks Chris, I'll have another go at feeling her again... and is it correct that her breath will smell bad ?

 

[chickenfan]

Yes, the crop is at chest level, and yes, her breath will probably smell bad if she has sour crop.

 

[walter]

Morning everyone.... since my last post I seperated her from the others and put her on a water diet only for just over 24 hours. I couldn't smell anything offensive from her breath, and I couldn't feel anything as described above in her crop.
Confusingly she seems better about herself now, not moping and holds herself upright. Her feathers don't appear ruffled either. I thought I'd cover all ports so after the water only diet, she is now 5 days into a Flubenvet worming session.
Now her poos still seem to be very soft / diarrhoea and this morning for the first time I found blood in her droppings.
Can anybody shed some advice. Could I get her poos analysed & would this tell me what's the matter ? ...If it is coccidiosis, is there treatment that I would be able to eat her eggs in the future.
Many thanks.

 

[chrismahon]

I've only had Coccidiosis in a chick under 6 weeks Walter. After that they have all been immune to it, as I read they would be. ACS is only in chick crumb, which they have up to 8 weeks. It exists in the ground everywhere, so if they do develop it later I think it is because of a general weakness for other reasons. The established treatment is to cull the flock and buy in a new healthy strain. Drug treatments are new and I think they are the reason Coccidiosis is seen in adults now -the breeding from them produces a low resistance strain of bird. Giving chicks ACS crumb may be adding to the weakness.

Soft poos could be the wormer working. The worms are digested and soft slimy poo results- we've recently done some that definitely had bad worms. Is she actually eating the Flubenvet pellets? The apparent blood may actually be shed intestinal lining, which is normal. Perhaps triggered by the wormer?

The chick pooing all blood and declared a 'no hoper' by the vet was treated successfully with a crop filled with probiotic yoghurt at 4 weeks. She then repeated the illness at 5 ½ weeks and was treated again. After that she was fine. That treatment was an act of desperation, not an established method. So no guarantees it will work for you. Lucy Legbar lived to nearly 7 years old and died in the nest box laying. None of the others developed it or had ACS in their crumb.

 

[walter]

Thanks for the reply Chris..
She is actually eating the Flubenvet treated pellets.
Your information has given me encouragement concerning the fact that the blood may be shed intestinal lining, and the soft poos as a result of the worming.
She looks well to me, and there's 2 days left of worming treatment. If she's as she is now, I'll put her back in with the others. I'm sure she'll be happier back in there & I'll treat her with some suitable food. The 'sick bay' coop is quite small as well, so that can't do her spirit much good either.
The probiotic yoghurt you mention, is it just the normal supermarket bought type ? How much and how often could I give this to her for ?
Thanks again.

 

[chrismahon]

Just once Walter. About 5mL will do her good when the worming has finished, by syringe well down the throat in small doses with time to swallow. She will enjoy it, but don't put it on bread. We used to do that years ago and were lucky. Any natural probiotic yoghurt will do. Try and get one with more than one culture in it -we used to buy one with four.

Being on her own will stress her and make her down anyway. Perhaps when she goes back she will pick up a lot.

 

[Marigold]

Hi Walter, I'm glad she's better. You must complete the worming treatment, even if there are any side effects, as it can do her nothing but good in itself. Once worms are eliminated you can then see if anything else seems to be a problem. You must also treat the other hens, as they will need it as well, and after that they will all be in synch. for the next treatment in 4 months time. Keep her on an all-pellet diet anyway, partly so she gets enough wormer, but also because it will be better for her digestion than anything else. I assume she is now eating enough pellets to be getting the proper dose? She should eat over 1 kilo of pellets in a weeks treatment. At least, my four hens get through a good 5 kilos when I treat them.
I don't think there's any need to keep her too cooped up, maybe you could use some spare netting to fence off a part of your run temporarily so she can see the others, and won't get forgotten by them? Otherwise they may not recognise her, or the pecking order may have changed in her absence and she will have re-integration problems when returned to the flock.
There's a special sort of probiotic yogurt for hens called Beryl's which many people swear by. You get it over the Internet. I can't provide a link as my girls are so obstinately healthy I've never needed it. If you order some, you could try ordinary Yeo Valley natural yogurt in the meantime, that's also very good, but make sure it's the 'real' kind with live cultures.