Coccidiosis advice please

[dawn]

I feel rather guilty asking for advice as I haven't posted for a while, but this forum is where I naturally turn if I have problems. One of my pekins, about 2 years old, died last night. I'm pretty sure it was coccidiosis from reading the symptoms which almost all match hers - hunched with feathers fluffed, neck withdrawn, listless, not eating or drinking much, white loose pooh, very pale face and comb. I'd introduced a new hen a week ago, and although she is well I wonder if she brought a new strain that mine weren't immune to.

The one who died had been broody so I mistook it for that at first, and only separated her from the others early yesterday when I realised it was more. I've ordered some coxoid which will come too late for her now but wondered if I should dose the others as a precaution. I'll disinfect the main hen house and run as well as the isolation coop but am worried the others will have been exposed as, with hindsight, I can see she was ill for a few days while she was in with them. They seem fine at present, but one concerns me a bit as she's staying in the house and has pale face and wattles but she's only just coming out of moult and hasn't ventured out much for weeks anyway.

I've also just started worming the others, can I give coxoid at the same time ?

Any advice would be really welcome.

 

[ducksgeesechooks]

First, I'm sorry for your loss.
I'm not familiar with coxoid, but I'm guessing that it's similiar to the corid we use here in the states to treat coccidiosis.
You asked about worming and using the coxoid at the same time. If it were me, I wouldn't. Too much of an assault on their gastrointestinal system at once. If you hadn't already started the worming I would have suggested treating for the immediately problem first - the coccidiosis and waiting a span of at least two weeks before worming; but it is what it is. Other forum members with more experience with coxoid may feel differently.
You might consider giving them a daily serving of plain, non-fat yogurt for a few days between the two different treatments and after you have finished treating them to help restore the balance of good bacteria in their gut.
Again, sorry for the loss.

 

[chrismahon]

Agree with Ducksgeesechooks Dawn. Avoid doing too much at once. i'm not convinced it was Coccidiosis. Poos should be bloody due to the gut lining being attacked. The symptoms you describe fit most things but sounds like chronic worms or red mite attack to me. Generally adult birds (over 6 weeks old actually) are naturally 'immune' to Coccidiosis -they have it, but their system can cope unless they are run down for other reasons. Our 4 weeks old chicks have had a touch of it, but two small doses of probiotic natural yoghurt sorted that completely.

Have you checked for Northern Fowl Mite Dawn. Can't be seen with the naked eye but they burrow under the skin and their presence is visible from scabs around the vent and hackles.

 

[Marigold]

I agree with Chris, the main symptoms of cocci are much more obvious, ie blood in diarrhoea, not just white loose poo. See the Poultrykeeper website at http://poultrykeeper.com/digestive-system-problems/coccidiosis
There are quite a lot of things that could cause the problems you saw, including worms or some other kind of debilitating parasite. I'd hesitate to say it isn't cocci, but in the absence of blood in the poos it does seem fairly unlikely in an adult bird. You might carry on with the worming in that case, rather than the Coxoid, and also check for parasites and treat appropriately if you find them. If another one is showing similar symptoms it would suggest a contagious or infectious problem.
The only effective disinfectant for cocci is Bi-oo-cyst, which s specifically designed to tackle the microscopic oocysts which are shed from an infected bird's droppings. These are very long-lived, can be picked up from the soil or litter by other healthy birds, and extremely difficult to exterminate, and ordinary disinfectants are not able to target them. It's very strong stuff, to be used with great care and in accordance with the instructions. Let's hope it's not necessary this time.
If you are not able to make a firm diagnosis it might be best to get a vets opinion, as otherwise the whole flock might be in danger of exposure to whatever it is. Did you quarantine the new bird for 2-3 weeks before introducing her? Most of the time you can get away without doing this, but on the odd occasion when a new bird is incubating something the flock isn't already immune to, it can spread rather fast.

 

[dawn]

Thank you for the advice, I wondered the same about cocci because of her age and complete lack of blood but couldn't think of anything else. I worm and delouse them regularly and use industrial quantities of diatom in their bedding and house. There is no sign of red mite, she didn't have any obvious lice etc on her and although they were due a dose of flubenvet which she died before starting, there is no sign of worms in the others or their poo now I've started the worming. I would like to think it wasn't cocci. As you all seem to think the same, I've just put the cocoid and Bi-oo-cyst that I'd ordered in the cupboard and hope it gather dust. The little one who died had occasionally had white loose poo since the spring, it would stain her feathers below the vent and we'd have to wash her but I thought it was because she had such a fluffy bottom as she was otherwise well.
The others all seem to be fine still, including the new one. I didn't quarantine her Marigold and have been feeling guilty about that as I usually would. She however adopted us ! She got through the fence between us and our neighbours and flew over the electric fence enclosing our chickens and was in with them before we knew she was there. Once we'd worked out where she came from (and they said we could keep her as they breed and she wasn't quite the right colour) she'd been there for a few days so I just left her in with the others as I know my neighbour's birds are all healthy. She has fallen in love with my cockeral and follows him everywhere unless one of us is in the garden in which case she follows us and strangely all the others have just accepted her with no problems at all.

 

[Marigold]

hi Dawn, glad things seem to be calming down a bit. Your birds are obviously very well cared-for and I think you are right not to go overboard with the Coxoid and Bi-oo-cyst, though it's good to have for emergencies.
If the one who died had been pulled down by being broody and also coming through a moult, and was possibly due for worming, maybe she just faded away, as they seem to sometimes, without anything too sinister going on that would affect the others. It does sound as if she might have had some kind of long-running low-level gut infection or internal problem as well, maybe. I would think that the one with pale wattles and comb who has just coming through moult is probably OK even if she's wanting to stay in the house more than normal, if you keep a careful eye on her. How has she seemed in the past few days since your post? Is she eating? If not, maybe a bit of TLC on her own with a nice nourishing high-protein warm mash with some chicken tonic in it might help buck her up and give her energy to grow new feathers.
What a lovely romantic story about the hen who eloped to be with your cockerel. If she's still OK no need to worry about her either for the time being.
I did wonder about the 'industrial quantities of diatom' you say you use in the coop, however. I can't really see much point in using this copiously on the bedding itself unless maybe you know you are experiencing a major outbreak, as it's very dangerous stuff if either you or the birds breathe it in, also expensive. Maybe just use it along all the cracks and joins and perch ends when you do a through clean out of the coop every now and then, and then just make sure any dirty litter is removed daily? It would be a pity to cause respiratory problems for the hens whilst trying to protect them against the dreaded redmite!

 

[chrismahon]

As Marigold says birds who are broody can die simply from keeping their underbelly heat up. Worming a bird with chronic worms can kill them because of the toxins given off when the worms die. Moulting is a big drain on their resources and anything else out of balance can tip things the wrong way.

Chicken love! We've seen it and its lovely. We have had cockerels fall for hens head over heels and they are very faithful to them. Problem sometimes is they get trodden too much and need a saddle or even need separating. So keep an eye on her Dawn.

 

[dawn]

Thanks Chris and Marigold - all still well so far. I'll cut down on the diatom though and intend to give them all a tonic once the worming has finished. I think the one who is reluctant to come out of the house for long may just need a pedicure as her toe nails are very long and she's picking her way around rather delicately. She has finished moulting now and has a lovely fluffy set of lavender coloured feathers and is eating ok. She still prefers to stay in the house but doesn't seem unhappy and isn't there all the time.
The romance continues, and Elvis (the cockerel ) is not too attentive, he seems more interested in giving her the best tit bits than jumping her. She's a sablepoot and is delightful, very friendly and inquisitive.