A lot of trouble with the King Suro

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Hi,
A friend of mine is having a lot of difficulty hatching her eggs with the RCOM King Suro.
Any advice? The reviews all seem favourable.

At 7 days the fertility is very good and any clear eggs are removed - even so she's only getting about 20% hatch rate (of the fertile ones, that is), none of which make it out of the shells by themselves.
2 hatched earlier this week, both of which had bad problems - one with a gammy leg and one who just keeps staring at the sky and tipping over.

Please advise me on the best way to put them out of their misery and any ideas on the incubator so that I can pass this on to her (having a farm, a very young family, hens and chronic back problems means there's not much time for her to sit a tthe computer and log on to the forum herself, so I thought I'd try for her.)

All help gratefully received.
 
Kitchen worktop. Its a method told/shown to me and the neck breaks. You hold the chicks neck against the edge of the worktop (or other similar thing), head facing away from you and press down with your thumb on the back of the neck while lifting the chick back and up. Hard to explain so it sounds like sensical. I'm sure someone else can explain it better than me. Probably better to have it shown to you before attempting.

I did read in one place someone uses starter fluid and soaks some cotton wool in it, puts the cotton wool in a container with the chick and puts a lid on it. Chick just then goes to sleep and never wakes up apparently. Overcome by fumes. I know a few other people also said they used this method when I read this. I've never met anyone who has said they have done this, so cannot attest to it working nor if its as humane as they made it sound. Perhaps google a bit to see if there is more info on this method.

I've read some truly horrifying stories of how people have attempted to dispatch chicks. Scary reading. The starter fluid thing sounds like a possible option perhaps, if you are squeamish. I'd like to hear from anyone on this forum if they've ever used or done anything like this with their young chicks. Be good to know how decent a method it is or is not.
 
Thanks, Snifter.
I'll google and see what comes up.
It'd be good to hear what others do as well.
 
I would buy a small electronic hygrometer or use a wet bulb to check that is correct - the problems do sound humidity related. Sometimes incubators need re-calibrating because they are set incorrectly or have drifted.

If you have a known good thermometer, check the temperature too - but usually the chicks hatch too early or too late if the temp. is wrong.

Secondly, check the eggs will hatch elsewhere - it's quite common to find they won't hatch or need help / have deformities if the parent stock are inbred. Alternatively try some known good eggs.

For the killing part, I stretch their necks - it doesn't take much force - you want to stretch it by about an inch or two.

I trialled a King Suro last year when it came out and I was impressed with it, I had no problems.
 
Thanks, Tim,
I read your review and told my friend about it. I was thinking of having a go myself,and planning to use the Suro, but decided against it until I can get my hands on some more land.

As for the chicks, they died overnight, which is a blessing, but also, 3 chicks she sold to another lady also died yesterday at about 7-8 days old. All these chicks were from the same trio, so I have advised her to sell the hens as garden/pet birds and get the cockerel put down. Is this the right thing to do?
She bought the trio in from a breeder in Telford along with another trio, neither of which, when she thought about it, she has had any hatching sucess with. Perhaps they are too closely relate? These are the questions that we newbies need to learn to ask, but, unfortunately, we have to make a few mistakes along the way.

I have adivised her to get new stock from Sue at VP or Susie Page (Pages Poultry), I think these breeders are well respected, aren't they?

Hope I've done the right thing.
 
Tim did suggest it could be incubator related, not bird related. You may be jumping the gun a bit if you don't properly test the eggs in another incubator.

It may be the birds are too closely related but I'd test the eggs elsewhere first to be sure. Dispatching an apparant healthy cock bird being used for breeding seems somewhat extreme if you don't allow a bit of research first.

Also the chicks she sold, if otherwise healthy at hatching may have picked up an infection/illness since being sold. It does happen. It may not be a problem from your friends side. And nothing to do with inbreeding. It can happen that chicks come down with some infection and the mortaility rate can be high if the people keeping the chicks are not experienced in poultry and chick rearing. Many people have no clue what signs and symptoms to look out for in young chicks or chickens.

I would just like to point a couple of things here causing me concern. You are giving your friend advice, which while meant well, is possibly misguided if you've not got much poultry experience yourself yet. You are giving your friend advice and then coming here and posting about it and asking us if you've done the right thing. After the event. That makes me uncomfortable, on a personal level. Its not for me to say she should sell her hens and dispatch the cock bird based on what you've told us here. I don't think I could honestly say that based solely on what you've said here. Please don't rush to say dispatch or aportion blame on the birds till you have more facts and have tested more eggs elsewhere etc.

I am also concerned that your friend is keeping poultry and breeding them, selling them, but doesn't seem to know what to do regarding certain aspects of their care and breeding. You posting here with questions on her behalf is fine, but please remember we are only offering advice, based on our knowledge and the information you have given us. Which, if you are like me, does not always contain *all* the pertinent info or some follows at a later date. My replies are not definate sure fire answers, only advice and suggestions based on my poultry keeping experience.

I think you are jumping to conclusions and not fully considering other aspects that need to be looked into first.
 
Thanks for your thoughts, Snifter.
These, along with other barbed comments from yourself, will definitely make me think twice before posting another question on anyone's behalf, including my own.
It's a real shame as I've enjoyed 'meeting' the other people on this forum - perhaps it's time for a change?
 
bridgemontbelle said:
Thanks for your thoughts, Snifter.
These, along with other barbed comments from yourself, will definitely make me think twice before posting another question on anyone's behalf, including my own.
It's a real shame as I've enjoyed 'meeting' the other people on this forum - perhaps it's time for a change?
Click to expand...

Barbed comments. No. I am simply being honest and trying to explain things and suggest other possibilities and courses of action your friend can try before culling and selling off her breeding stock. I may be somewhat blunt I admit, but I cannot change how I post in that respect. I don't say anything to be mean to a person. My main concern is for the welfare of the birds in question and I always try to offer advice that will hopefully be of some help somewhere. I have answered many questions and tried to be helpful and informative in all areas of the forum.

If my style isn't for all, fair enough. Forums being what they are, interpreting the written word is difficult and we can all often bristle at things written when had we heard them spoken, seen the persons face, might have interpreted differently. I've been posting on forums for over a decade now. Maybe its because I've been posting online so long I've adopted the style of writing that I have. No nonsense, blunt. Not barbed. Thats not the intent behind them. I'm not going to dress things up or coat them in cotton wool. Its just not me. Posting on forums isn't always easy, you are never going to like everything everyone says or like everyone who posts, but isn't that the same in real life aswell? If you post a subject, people will read and reply. I've posted numerous poultry forums and have seen how people can behave. Trust me, you think I am barbed and whatever else, I've got nothing on what I've seen some people post elsewhere :? :roll:


I posted my reply as I felt uncomfortable that you advised someone to take drastic action first and then asked on here after for our thoughts on the matter and to validate your recommendation. I cannot honestly say its the right thing to do. I was suggesting you and your friend look at other options first before rushing into a decision to cull a cock bird and sell off hens based on the information you have given and the feedback/suggestions you have had.

I apologise if you feel my comments were barbed. I wrote them being concerned and uncomfortable with a few things so wanted to give feedback, explain why I could not give an answer about what you were asking and suggestions to consider trying.
 
Hmm lets have a think...

If it is a trio that was bought, there is a high chance they are related - however this shouldn't be a problem unless the strain has been inbred for a number of years but it is very unlikely the breeder will have let it get that bad - because for some time, they would have had decreasing numbers of eggs hatch- things would get gradually worse..

Some things to think about:

1. Health of the parent trio. Check them over for good health, good diet, enough greens etc.
2. Incubator - The most likely problem is humidity - but ideally check temperature as mentioned before and check that it holds steady at 37.5 over the test period and doesn't spike.
3. Disease - There could be a disease problem with the chicks that were sold or the people just didn't know what they were doing. They could have been chilled or anything. Make sure clean eggs are set and the incubator is disinfected between uses.

I don't have any more thoughts at the moment but the breeding stock might not be to blame.

I would offer to incubate a few eggs for her to see how well they do here but my Incubators are full while I'm hatching ducks.
 
Oh and one last thing - the ventillation is adequate (vents open for hatch) so they are not starved of oxygen - the eggs are porous and they breathe through the shells but need more air to breathe during the hatch...
 
Thanks for your advice, Tim.
It is very much appreciated and I'll pass it on.
 
I have a king suro and we had a few really bad hatches (with lots of dead in shell like your friend had) The next time I went to use it it wasn't heating up at all so I returned it to the supplier and they (incredibly helpfully!) fixed it- It was a problem with the PCB board or something?

The supplier did say it was the first king suro they had repaired but perhaps your friend has a similar problem with their machine?- I've got mine full again to see if there is a difference in the hatch rate this time- as I'm hoping the previous bad hatches were caused by the machine slowly packing up- If you check temp and humidity with seperate thermometers etc it should rule out any problem with the machine itself.

If all is well with the incubator and you know that is working properly then you can try to rule out the other variables like Tim and Snifter suggested- We found that the temperature of the room the incubator is in makes a big difference (even with the king suro!) The hatches we tried in our garage and attic have been poor compared to when the incubator is in the house (and keeping everyone awake with the turning and then cheeping :D ) Just another variable to add in to the equation :? I'm starting to think the easiest way of incubating is to give up on the clever machines and pop the eggs under broodies :lol:
 
Having the same problems with my 3 suro kings . I must admit I did put it down to being a beginner at first, and the fact they were bought on ebay so had gone through the postal system...
example:- bought 30 pekin eggs (diff colours diff sellers) 20 of these fertile and 14 hatched... but the chicks had a nightmare getting out of the shells and took ages to dry off.
24 Vorwerk eggs from 3 different sources.... 19 fertile 9 hatched but 3 died. again problems with being sticky and having problems getting out although followed manafactures settings.
and last week I had 13 out of 14 fertile serama eggs due, only 6 hatched. All my losses were fully formed dead in shell. I have 2 icubators still full of Serama eggs from my own birds. Lydia had 6 eggs from the birds I have and she managed 100% hatch rate (serama).
Not sure I am blaming the suro right now as all seem to be the faults connected with too low humidity so rather than use the factory setttings I have since increased the humidity in both incubators to 50% rather than the 45% to see if it makes a difference.
As I said though the Pekin eggs where my very first chicken eggs I have hatched so am very very new to this.
btw my incubators are in my spare room as it is the room that is the quietest and maintains the most constant temps, blinds are kept closed at all times. will let you know if the change in humidity helps any. Also the last clutch I set I washed the eggs also and the bators are cleaned with the proper solution between clutches.

Kym
 
Kym,
Sounds like the problems we have been having are very similar- I know that lots of people play around with the humidity and temp until they get something that suits them. Let me know how you get on and I'll do the same- Mine is on the factory settings so I'll see how his hatch goes- I know the eggs are fine as they are from my own, unrelated groups so hopefully the hatch will be better ;)
 
sounds good to me pebojuno :D
all the eggs in my 2 at the momment are from my own birds also, I know Serama are supposed to be difficult but hubby says I tend to be a perfectionist in any thing I undertake. I am just not happy with hatch rates at the momment, they are not too bad, but am sure I can do better.
The Serama that did hatch seemed to have an easier job of hatching that the Pekins did, no sticky residue on the chicks and they pipped and next thing they were out... felt alot more relaxed watching these onese pop that the others. But that may have been down to the fact i own the parent birds.
Just something a littler more satisfying watching your own eggs hatch than bought in ones. I am hoping thing will improve as I am after some Barbu D'anver and some Dutch for my next project =/
 
Well, perhaps between us on the forum we'll work out an optimum setting ;) The chicks that hatched with me were sticky looking too! I like the Barbu and Dutch - very pretty birds but I'd better not get into them at the moment :D
 
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