Scale ridges on toes?

[rick]

I took the opportunity to bring in all the CLBs, one by one, after dark this evening and give them a good look over. New pins have made me not want to handle them till now (and they get themselves in a right wriggly panic generally.)
Lulu has raised ridges on all of her toes - like linear peaks down the length of them on top. I'll see if I can get a photo tomorrow.
Her scales are not as smooth as the other two. I'm wondering about scale mites, or if she is just like that, and why the other two (and Linden) would be unaffected.
I'll get a picture.

 

[rick]

They are like flanges on the top of her toes. What do you think?

 

[MrsBiscuit]

It looks like scaley leg to me. I'm sure there are plenty of treatments available now, I'm not up to date anymore so I won't offer a solution, hopefully somebody else will come along with an idea.

 

[Marigold]

Yes that’s pretty normal for an older bird, scaley leg I think. Various treatments available but they all need persistence as they don’t show any effect until the scales grow out and this takes forever, by which time most keepers will have given up!
It looks as if it must be painful but I’ve not noticed hens having obvious difficulties with it, going lame etc. But having mites under the scales must be very nasty all the same, and if course it’s contagious, gets passed on to younger birds. If you decide on a treatment programme you need to do them all, whether or not they’re apparently afflicted, to try to break transmission.
I must say that when I look at my own toes nowadays, I see similarities .....

 

[rick]

Ah, That was funny!
Right, thanks both. I think I'll start with some regular vasaline foot rubs all round (they're gonna hate this!) Lulu seems quite comfortable as far as I can tell but it is always hard to tell with a chicken. Having had a good look at all their feet - well they all need a foot scrub and some softener for sure! Except Linden as (to his annoyance) I can catch him and mither him as a regular thing.
Funnily enough, though, all chickens seem to like a foot massage once they have gotten over the 'OMG, I knew I was for the pot - here we go' phase. Maybe they will get used to it, Seems like its time to try. I do miss my hybrids - they were like 'So this is part of the deal right? - Whatever!'

 

[Marigold]

Probably a good time of year to get going on this, as I expect the mites may be less active and not breeding so much in winter?

 

[Hen-Gen]

As others have said scaly leg is an irritating condition and requires persistent treatment with some kind of substance that will suffocate the mites that cause it and also soften the scales. Petroleum jelly works well. However the stress involved in regularly catching the birds is obvious. This is easily treated in pigeons and cage birds with a single application of invermectin. Unfortunately it is not licensed for use in chickens presumably because it lingers in the flesh or is passed into their eggs.
In sheep it must not be used within three months of their slaughter date so it is purged from the system in due course.
I do not know what licensing means. Whether it means that it is illegal to use invermectin on chickens I do not know. Perhaps others can shed light on this.
Good henhouse cleanliness is important because the mite thrives in damp conditions. I try to use Bliss as my preferred bedding because this is impregnated with eucalyptus oil which is said to be a deterrent. Either way once a year in summer I empty the henhouse and spray everywhere with malathion not letting the birds back in until everything is dry.
So no quick and easy solution I’m afraid.

 

[MrsBiscuit]

I don't know if it is illegal to use an unlicensed product on a chicken either, although I know of plenty of cases where product X is licensed for a dog or cat for example, and finds its way to a chicken as it works there as well. Although a disclaimer this is not what we should be doing as my understanding is that we could be introducing an active ingredient into the food chain and/or increasing antibiotic resistance.

On the odd occasion I had a bird with scaley leg I used petroleum jelly to smother the mites, but be warned it takes a season. I have read that sudocrem works well, it is a bit of a wonder cream on humans.

I discovered yesterday that somebody locally is distilling eucalyptus! I can't think of anything nastier to drink.

 

[rick]

Hmmm... I'm trying to think of a way I could get them to paddle in some olive oil but not seriously. A routine of handling could do with being gotten back into - these girls are difficult in that regard but molting is over and they will just have to get used to it for their own good. In the evening, after roosting, is the only way really. Catching any of them, but Mo in particular, in daylight is extreme drama!
The way I understand it, it would only be illegal to use ivermectine if their products were going into the food chain. With chickens that happening is taken for granted and so it is a flat no! They probably wont be laying again for a couple of months (and I'm not going to eat them despite what they suspect) but, still, that is less than 3 months and I dont want to use it.
Their bedding is changed more often than is really practical just because we get by with enough space but none to spare

 

[chrismahon]

I agree you have a very early and mild case of scaley leg mite Rick. We used to get Benzol Benzoate solution from the vet and we have bought the same here- it's used to treat scabies in humans. However it's not that successful and usually has to be repeated a few times. What does seem to work effectively is your first thought, bathing in olive oil. Two person job. One holds the chicken with its feet in a tray of oil, the other uses a small brush to push it under the scales. It does help sometimes to lift the foot and bend the toes to open up the scales. Just drowns the mites and softens the scales at the same time. Used it plenty of times and no repeats.

 

[Shadrach]

There seems to be a genetic predisposition to Scaly Leg Mite. I have 3 in one tribe here that suffer badly from it while the rest seem unaffected.
I've found a mixture of Betadine and Vaseline works well; 25% Betadine and 75% Vaseline.
You need to smother the legs, or in your case toes, in it. A light coating sin't sufficient.
The Betadine is both antiseptic and anti fungal and this takes care of the mite shit that builds up under the scales. The Vaseline smoothers the mites.
However, what this treatment doesn't do is kill the eggs the miites lay.
I treat for two nights then wait ten days and treat again for two nights.
It's a bit messy but it works.
As mentioned above; you won't see any noticable improvement until the old scales are shed and the new ones grow in.

 

[rick]

Thanks Shadrach. When there is no evidence of success until the old scales are replaced then it is good to have a specific coarse of treatment. Doesn't sound too laborious or alarming (for the hen) being for two days, 10 days apart.

 

[dinosaw]

Bit late seeing this Rick, so this input is probably by the by. We deal with this by using a combo of surgical spirit liberally sprayed onto the legs followed by vaseline to coat them.

 

[Marigold]

I’ve read that this is a painful to the chickens if their legs are sore under the scales because the mites are biting and irritating them. If you’ve ever got surgical spirit in a cut, you’ll know why! When there are kinder methods of control maybe it’s best to use them?

 

[rick]

Not to worry Marigold, the only spirit I have in the house is vodka (Grey Goose) and I'm not about to bath Lulu's feet in it! I'm sure Dinosaw would be very aware of an acute pain reaction by doing it though - they hide discomfort very well but not so well that an experienced keeper would miss it if it was sudden and acute.
To be completely honest I'm not completely convinced that this particular thing is caused by mite - its so uniform and only on the toes of only Lulu who appears to be completely un-bothered by it but as suffocating mite (in this possible instance) seems like the main angle of attack, and is fairly easy in theory, then foot attention is on the cards.

 

[dinosaw]

I’ve read that this is a painful to the chickens if their legs are sore under the scales because the mites are biting and irritating them. If you’ve ever got surgical spirit in a cut, you’ll know why! When there are kinder methods of control maybe it’s best to use them?

Yes, what an evil sod I am, how I must hate those chickens.

 

[dinosaw]

Not to worry Marigold, the only spirit I have in the house is vodka (Grey Goose) and I'm not about to bath Lulu's feet in it! I'm sure Dinosaw would be very aware of an acute pain reaction by doing it though - they hide discomfort very well but not so well that an experienced keeper would miss it if it was sudden and acute.
To be completely honest I'm not completely convinced that this particular thing is caused by mite - its so uniform and only on the toes of only Lulu who appears to be completely un-bothered by it but as suffocating mite (in this possible instance) seems like the main angle of attack, and is fairly easy in theory, then foot attention is on the cards.

Thank you Rick 17 . I (or rather Mrs Dinosaw) sprays, rather than dips, they seem to tolerate it well enough and she loves our chickens to bits. I've used the olive oil method previously and for me personally it didn't work, which is in no way saying it hasn't worked for others or doesn't work. There is presumably a knack to it and our birds had it on their legs so dipping them was challenging. It does look like mite from your photos tbh. I have found they don't seem to really be discomforted by it, or at least don't show that they are. It couldn't hurt to treat the legs as well as a preventative measure.