Incubating for the first time,

[GreenFeather]

Hello c:
I recently bought an incubator and 12 button quail eggs off ebay hoping to hatch some. I keep reading different advice as to hatching them so I thought I'd join a forum for advice.

I'm not sure whether to incubate dry.. I have a hydrometer which reads 0% in the incubator when I add nothing. I have put a small sponge in which raises it to 25% - 45%. Is this OK? Or does it need to be more consistent? Am I best putting a small water tub>The incubator is fan assisted and I have it at 37.5 c, though it drops and raises above this, do the eggs keep a middle temperature inside them?

The eggs came in the post at 12 and I put them in the incubator at around 6 this morning, (I was going to leave them to settle longer but I was impatient). I can't be consistent with the daily turning as I am out at different times each day, is this OK aslong as both sides of the egg get an even amount of time? And also, is the way the eggs are rotated, important? Like, do they go all the way round, or back and fourth? I've marked them with an 'X' and 'O'.

After candling, I found that two of the eggs had small cracks and I read that these can infect the other eggs with bacteria so I decided to crack them open and check for fertility.
One of the yolks has the 'bulls eye - like white' circle, but i'm no expert. I messed with the contrast so it's more visible.

Hopefully I haven't done anything too wrong..

 

[Marigold]

Hi Greenfeather, how nice to have another quail enthusiast on here, welcome to the Forum.
What sort of incubator have you got? You are right to think that most experienced quail hatchers add no water to the incubator, because in the UK at this time of year, the humidity level in the air around is going to be around 45% which is plenty high enough. The air gets drawn in to the incubator by the fan, so if you then add more water, eggs will often fail to hatch because they literally drown in their porous shells as a result of the raised humidity. I'm not sure why your hygrometer is reading 0 when in the incubator. Does it do this when you read it outside in the air? If so, could it possibly be faulty? Does the incubator itself have a humidity gauge to compare with it?
I can only say that the quail hatches I did last year were successful when I added no water until the eggs were pipping, ie all the fertile eggs hatched easily into strong chicks. Have you read my review about the new quail keeping book by Sarah Barratt which has just come out( see previous thread in this section.) Sarah hatches hundreds of quail each year and always uses this method because else finds it most successful. But of course it's up to you and its hard to feel fully confident with your first hatch in a new incubator, anyway, whether or not you have any previous experience of incubation. I recommend the book, anyway, its very helpful.

The temperature is right at 37.5 or 38c, and although ideally there shouldn't be much variation, you may find that if it drops below this, the hatch may be a day or so later, and if its consistently higher, they may arrive a bit early. If it varies wildly and often, of course there will be problems, you'll just have to try it and see. Do you have to open the incubator to turn them? This has the problem of the temperature dropping whilst you do so, which in itself makes things more unstable in there. Try to turn them at least three times a day, as evenly spaced as you can, through 180 degrees - either direction will have the same result. Have a go if you wake in the night, maybe! Only carry on turning until Day 14, counting the first day of incubation as Day 0, and then place the eggs on a surface which will give a good grip to the chicks feet when they hatch.
I wouldn't bother to try to candle them. For one thing, this is pretty impossible with the strong blotchy markings on the shells, and for another, it means opening the incubator and removing the eggs, so both eggs and incubator lose a lot of heat. Being such small eggs this happens quickly. Candling has no usefulness other than satisfying one's own curiosity in any case.
Is the incubator in a warm room without any great temperature fluctuations, especially during these cold nights we are having at the moment? The temperature may drop at night if the incubator has to work harder to maintain it. Also, be careful it doesn't sit anywhere where it will be in direct sun during the day, for the opposite reason. We're you able to run the incubator for a day or so before the eggs went in, to really warm it up and see how it behaved?
Quail chicks are so lovely, such incredibly tiny little balls of fluff, very addictive. Good luck with the hatch, at least now you've got a couple of weeks to think about setting up the brooder and getting good temperature adjustment in there. We shall be waiting for more news with bated breath!

 

[GreenFeather]

Thank you Marigold for the long reply!

The incubator is a polystyrene box with a thermostat, heat light and small pc fan. There are two air holes either side. I really don't know why it reads 0% in the incubator, outside it reads about 35% so I don't think it's faulty. It did came with the incubator which I got off ebay, it looks like a cheap one but according to the seller it works good for him. It's not digital though, last Wednesday I bought a digital one off ebay and it was posted the same day first class and I haven't got it yet which is annoying. So I'm not sure whether to keep the sponge in there, with maybe less water?

I do have to open the incubator to turn the eggs, I try and be as quick as possible. The temp does drop to around 35 but goes back pretty quick, would this affect the eggs? ): The incubator does seem to reach the desired temperature quickly. I can turn them three times a day every day no problem. I was going to turn them more on some days, but I guess it's better not to because of the temp drop.

I left the incubator on for just 24 hours, and checked the incubator several times when I woke up in the night and the temperature stayed at around 37.5c.
I will also try to resist the urge to candle the eggs.. I don't have much hope in them hatching any, but i'm learning lots. I'll have a look at the thread about the book you mentioned.
Thanks again!

 

[Marigold]

The difference in readings inside and outside is odd, isn't it? 35 outside is about right, what you would expect, and suggests the hygrometer is at least functioning. So why is the air inside apparently so different and dry? Could this be a ventilation problem within the incubator, do you think, whereby the air us getting dried out by the heat bulb and not exchanged sufficiently with outside air? If so, this may be reducing the oxygen levels that the eggs need. I don't know if thus could be so, I have no experience with this sort of incubator, but I suppose regular opening of the box to turn the eggs would let in fresh air. Does the hygrometer indicate more than 0 after you have just opened it for turning?
If you like I could move this thread to the Incubation and Hatching section, where we would get the benefit of advice from people more experienced with a range of incubators.

 

[chrismahon]

The 'bullseye' is a fertile egg Greenfeather (the blastoderm). Running 'dry' only works if the ambient humidity is high. If you are in a dry house you will need to add water. It's all about development of the air sac, which relies on slow evaporation of the water content of the egg. The formation of the air sac is crucial to successful hatching.

 

[GreenFeather]

Hello, thanks for both your replies!
Yesterday I bought a hygrometer from a pet shop which gave me a lower humidity. The one I ordered from ebay reads almost the same as the pet shop one, and it's also a thermometre. When I first put it in it read almost 39 c but strangely it changed to the same readings as the first hygrometre/thermometre in a few minutes. For my next try I will spend more time trying to understand the incubator and buying one decent hygrometre/thermometre. I'll post on the hatching/incubation sub-forum then.
I felt really hopeless about these eggs ever hatching so I candled a couple, (sorry! ) but they both had a darker lump floating in them, and I could make out some veins. Are the 'lumps' supposed to be attached? They moved slightly when I rotated the egg. I'm just rotating the eggs 3 times a day, (equally).
Thanks again for the info.

The 'bullseye' is a fertile egg Greenfeather (the blastoderm)

awesome, thanks!

 

[Marigold]

Don't give up on them yet. Quail eggs are very resilient. Somebody posted on here a while ago about a bag of old eggs she had been given and incubated on the off chance and got a really good hatch! It's not very long to wait, you may not hatch them all but I would be surprised if they were all lost.
If more than one hygrometer is still telling you that the humidity is very low in the inci, then try raising it to about 35-40 by adding a wet sponge or small dish of water. If there are veins and lumps in the egg are growing I expect all is well. Yes they should be moving around a bit, the embryo is attached at each end by cords ( the chalazae) which keep it aligned and suspended within the shell. I expect you have seen these when you've cracked open a hens egg, sort of twisted transparent stringy sort of things. The reason you are turning the eggs is so that the embryos don't come into contact with the membrane for long enough to get stuck When are they due to hatch?

 

[GreenFeather]

When are they due to hatch?

I put them in the incubator Saturday morning, so if that counts as day 0, around about the 22nd of April?
For humidity I have changed to a larger bowl of water with a sponge in it.

the embryo is attached at each end by cords ( the chalazae) which keep it aligned and suspended within the shell. I expect you have seen these when you've cracked open a hens egg, sort of twisted transparent stringy sort of things.

ah! yes..
Thanks again for your help, I'll keep you updated. hopefully I will have photos of some quail chicks to share soon!

 

[Marigold]

How's the humidity this morning?

 

[GreenFeather]

It had dropped to about 27% (the water bowls had very little water) so I quickly added more water and it's at 37% now. Guess I'll have to add more water in the evening so it's OK over night.

 

[Marigold]

37 is OK don't let it get above this

 

[GreenFeather]

Deleted my old message as the dates were totally wrong, was using a 2012 calender... 07 ...
Today is the day 14, excluding the day the day they first put in, so I have stopped rotating. How much do you think I should raise the humidity by? I've increased it to about 40% for now...
I did candle the eggs yesterday very quickly, about 4 were dark and opaque with a big air sac, I couldn't see any veins on 3, though 1 had loads of thin veins and I could also see it moving inside on it's own quite alot. The rest had slightly smaller air sacs and were more transparent.
Also, would chick crumb be fine for them? If I ground it up? I have a brooder set up, just need the food, is there anything else?
Thanks!

edit-just read some info you'd written on another post about the feed

 

[Marigold]

Don't raise the humidity until they start to rock and pip, which may be between 16 and 18 days, or even a little longer. You will know soon which ones are definitely alive as they will begin to twitch. at first i thought i must be imagining things but they do suddenly jump a bit, getting themselves into the right orientation for hatch. This is why you need to stop turning them at that stage. Day 15 ie tomorrow, you could stop turning and place the eggs on a surface like a towel or j cloth or rubber mat, which will give a good grip for their tiny feet. Once mine started to hatch they came out quite rapidly, it was amazing to watch them unzipping the top of the egg and just surging out.
chick crumb is fine for coturnix, though I expect for CPQs it might be a good idea to grind it up a bit. Crumbled hard boiled egg yolk s also good but remove it after a short time as it will quickly go bad in the heat. They don't need any food for the first 24-48 hours of course as thy are still using up and absorbing their an egg sac.

 

[GreenFeather]

Ah Ok, I have lessened the humidity a bit now. A couple have rolled over from where I left them.. maybe I'm being too hopeful..
I'll try to leave them alone now. Thanks for all the info!

 

[GreenFeather]

I have quail!
One hatched at 1 this morning, then two more about an hour ago.
(First one)

(About 5 hours later)

The second one to hatch had it's head at the pointed end of the shell, when it finally got out, I moved it to a box with the older one straight away but it's legs were stretched out on each side. The other two are fine.
(One on the left)

I just put a plaster around both the legs to hold them together and it's staying on so hopefully that will work, i'm not sure whether there's anything else I can do?
Two more out of the three eggs left in the incubator are moving

When they are eating, do I need to give them some kind of grit? Or not for a while?

 

[Marigold]

I thought you put 12 eggs in to the inci - did you decide some of them weren't going to hatch? Lets hope for at least another couple hatching soon.
Make sure the brooder is really warm if you have moved them from the incubator straight away - most people leave them in the inci for 24+ hours to dry out, but I expect yours will be OK. if warm enough.
I gave my chicks a little pit of fine cage bird sized grit, like you I didn't really think they needed it but if they did I didn't want them to go short of it! The main thing is to try to get them drinking by about teatime tomorrow, without drowning themselves of course. You can sprinkle chick crumb over the floor for the first day or so, and if you drop it a few grains at a time, the noise may attract them to eat it. Also hard boiled egg yolk, crumbled up, is excellent as a first food, but don't leave uneaten bits lying around.
More news tomorrow, I hope!

 

[GreenFeather]

Yeah, It was strange because all the lighter coloured eggs were not fertile/died early, I candled them on Saturday and I was finally sure they weren't fertile so I opened them. Only one looked as though it had developed a little. At lockdown there were just 6 in the incubator.

One of the ones that were shaking hatched with no problems, then all went quiet with the other egg, completely quiet but it was making alot of noise just a moment ago. I poked a hole and could see the beak but it wasn't moving, it must of died as the other one was hatching. It's sad because it looks totally fine and was chirping moments before. The egg's membrane was quite dry.
I poked a hole in the last one as I hadn't heard anything from it yesterday or today and it was a fully formed chick too, though I think it more likely died yesterday.The membranes of the eggs that were hatching looked quite dry, I kept upping the humidity but not enough it seems.

Oh, the basket I put them in is still in the incubator, I was going to leave them in for one night.
Sorry for rambling, I appreciate your help, thanks! c: