3 year old hen mouth breathing?

Hi!

So I'm back with a new issue.

Rosie, our 3 year old Maran cuivree, has had a tough few months recently (sour crop which took WEEKS to resolve and left her thin, she then recovered and had a good couple of weeks laying eggs and running about, only to get slow crop... we are just coming out of the other side of that now, and have resigned ourselves to the fact that she may get it on and off for the rest of her life (no idea why - her sister, Pepper, has never had it))

anyway, got her through all that, and thought she was doing much better. Today, however, she seems to have started breathing through her mouth.She has always breathed a bit weird - she blows out and her sinus's under her eye kinda puffs out on each breath - I've never seen it before in a chicken, but it has never seemed to cause her problems, but the mouth breathing is new.

I'll try and get a video of it to post - but does anyone have any thoughts?

She hasn't been wormed in a while due to being off her food for so long. She gets probiotics in her water at the moment, and I've been rubbing VetRX into her comb and wattle to see if that will help her. (no idea if its doing anything yet)

Other than the mouth breathing, she seems fine, and is currently taking a dust bath. She's eating OK (although only since yesterday has she been eating 'properly') and drinking OK, and plodding about the garden with Pepper no problem...

Try these links fora couple of videos...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsIu7gR36tc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOkGziL_t4k

Any thoughts? (excuse the messy bums - still trying to get that sorted!)

Thanks as always!

Well they do breath with their beak open when nervous is my first thought but I wonder if her nostrils are blocked. Im just trying to guess what might cause air pressure to make the skin around the sinuses to do that. Just like us, some chickens have a bit of a weak system and ongoing problems related to it. Unfortunately, with birds, everything has an effect on everything else (pretty much.) A slow digestive system, with the crop at the front end, can be related to respiratory issues and that can also be related to reproductive issues. But she looks like she is coping pretty well at the moment though obviously a bit short of breath looking at the vid again. You could try wiping her nares and beak with some saline solution regularly for a few days. The saline is important as it is easy to wash whatever is the blockage (if there is one) further into the airways and saline will make that harmless if it does happen. I would trim the bits off those bum feathers - once they have lost condition it keeps sticking anyway.

If you haven’t wormed her with Flubenvet recently it would be good to do all your hens when you can. A worm burden will always pull a hen down and might be affecting her breathing if she has a heavy load. If her appetite is poor, try the treats method - make a mix of delicious seeds and treats such as sunflower and mixed corn, and measure out a small container-full per hen per day for one week, ( 7 small containers per hen.) Add a little vegetable oil to help the powder stick to the mix and stir well. Then add the required amount of Flubenvet for the number of hens - 2-3 scoops for five hens - and stir well. Feed one measure of the mix per hen per day on a big treats plate. Watch to see that everyone is getting a share, and maybe separate Rosie to be sure she has had all of hers. With this method there is no need to restrict them from normal feeding and you can see it going down.
The other thing that causes beak breathing is overheating but I don’t think we’ve got there yet this summer and anyway yours have shade available.

Thanks both! I'll try the saline solution and see what happens. I'll also try worming - I was holding back on that as she was off her food (and treats!) but shes eating better now, so might go for it.

Will keep you informed. x

well, she's still with us! Still breathing hard on and off (and her sinius still flare) but she seems fine otherwise... running about the garden, digging up worms, dust bathing, chatting nonstop - and she's also started crouching under my hand again, which she did before when she was feeling better. She layed us a few eggs (before the next bout of slow crop!) so I'm hopeful - although I have no idea whats causing her to breathe like she does...

If it's any consolation, Gemma,one of my hens Barbie developed a sneezing "habit" which went on for months. She wasn't ill and was otherwise very well, but I really felt sorry for her as she couldn't stop. At the time, my hens were allowed to free roam in my garden, which had numerous plants and flowers and coniferous trees.
I am not sure if it is coincidence, but after putting my hens in a secure run, no access to flowers/trees, that weeks later I noticed Barbie has not sneezing. I wonder if she had an allergy to something in my garden. It's just food for thought.

HI all, so Rosie has slow crop again. She didn't lay any eggs and stopped crouching after a few days. She has been vomited this morning (by my husband, as I can't stand to do it!) as she was so full she leaked as she walked. I honestly don't know how to help her anymore. It feels like she has been sick on and off since september last year. Is there anything I can do to get rid of this slow crop for good? I still havent been able to worm her - is it worth the risk at this point?

I have been in touch with our local chicken farm to see when they next have POL as I'm worried we will lose her and leave Pepper on her own (our farms have had a rush on chicken buyers and sell out in a day, so I wanted to check what our options are on that front) but I still want to help Rosie as best I can. Right now she has eaten some cucumber (her favourite) and is drinking lots.. we are going to leave her be for a few hours to get over the shock of vomiting and see where she is - but I'd love to know if anyone else has had a situation of repeated slow crop...

Thanks. x

Good idea to get a couple more as soon as you can, GemmaEllen. Without wishing to sound heartless, if Rosie were mine I wouldn’t want to put her through crop draining treatment and continued crop, digestive and breathing problems for something which at her age is likely to be incurable and possibly infectious. Unfortunately, hens are not a very long-lived species, and with a few exceptions their natural trouble-free lifespan seems often to be only 3-4 years. I know it’s a difficult decision where a bird is a much-loved pet, and only you can make it.

Did you worm her with Flubenvet? If not, and you want to try something as a last shot, this might make a difference. The symptoms you describe could very possibly have worm implications, or at least worms could be contributing to general low health leading to reduced immune system effectiveness.

Hi marigold, I've just ordered some more flubenvet as they dont like the liquid variety we have. I'm trying to powder version. (pellets are no good - they only eat mash!) I've put it on a rush order so it should be here by wednesday. we will see how she gets on until then, worm them both as a last ditch effort, and see what happens. I'm convinced there's something going on inside that I cant see or help with, and will have to look into how I can have her put to sleep if she remains this way - she has good days, but her bad are getting more frequent. (I will only do so if I can get new friends for Pepper)

I'll keep you informed!

Gem. x

Good luck, GemmaEllen, please let us know how you get on.

Morning! Quick update on Rosie - she perked up a few hours after Andy vomited her yesterday, although spent most of the day asleep under her favourite bush. (pepper slept with her on and off) She put herself to bed early, as she often does on her 'bad days'. This morning, Andy let her out and reported that she was first out of the coop, and dived straight into her grain. When I went out a few hours later (we leave them in the run for a few hours to fill up on grain before letting them free range in the garden) she was off down the garden with Pepper, doing her best to get into the kitchen before I closed the door. (she sneaks in and eats the cat food if we dont remember to close the door at all times!!) Andy forgot to check her crop when he let her out, but I had a quick feel when I let them into the garden and it seemed pretty normal - food and water inside, but not overly full or watery...

So I guess today is a good day! She is currently wandering the garden, pecking about. Our wormer arrives tomorrow so will start the process and see how she gets on.

Good news! Is the cat food the soft meaty type? If so, you could try her with some of it, - also scrambled egg with no salt.

HI all!

so we are on day 3 of the flubenvet and Rosie is struggling. She still has a doughy crop in the morning, and is still slow and sleepy, but the worming is taking its toll and she is even slower than usual! we gave her a warm epsom bath earler as she's made a mess of her bum. she's not really eating today, except cucumber. her droppings are runny, mostly white with the occasional brown bit (whatever food is getting through her) and yesterday she dropped a red mucus. after going into full panic mode, I googled it and discovered that worming can sometimes cause red mucus and it is the worms detaching from the stomach lining? please tell me if this is wrong.

I'm trying to decide whether to give her a break in the worming for a few days, and try again? I know a full 7 day run is required, but she's so tired of it all... I'm worried it will push her over the edge!

We offer both wet and dry cat food to our cats, and she often picks at both - plus the cat milk! she's not been interested in that today - nor the sardines in olive oil I've been trying to feed her to get oil into her crop...!

Quick update - we stopped worming Rosie as she was really suffering. I'm giving her a few more days off, and then I'll start again with the full 7 days. She spent most of yesterday up in the coop, and we were worried it was the end, but then this morning she passed a big worm looking thing - it was worm shaped on one end, and bulbous at the other, like the worm had plugged itself somewhere and grown around her... since then, she's been a bit more alert, and not breathing so hard. she's been eating sweetcorn and water... I wouldnt say shes out of the woods by any means yet, but I'm hoping that was the problem...

Needless to say, I will make worming a priority from now on!!!!

I'll keep you informed.

Amazing GemmaEllen. It does sounds as if you’ve found at least part of the problem. Did you take a pic of the dropping? We’d all love to see it!
Yes the vet. advice is to give two courses of Flubenvet if there’s a very heavy infestation. The second course should be 3 weeks after the first go, to catch any worm eggs which were laid and incubating and thus not killed in the first treatment - flubenvet only works on the active internal worms which have already hatched. How many days has Rosie had on the first go? If you can resume dosing her and keep going with the treatment, however poorly she seems, you’ll have a much better chance of reducing the number of hatched worms now, and she should feel better as a result, even if it’s difficult for a few more days. Good luck!

PS have you tried scrambled egg or meaty cat food? High protein, can be helpful. Also sunflower seeds. Not earthworms, which are probably the cause of the problem if she’s been free ranging - (earthworms eat the soil with chicken droppings containing worm eggs, hens eat the earthworms, and keep the worm cycle going. So never give them as treats!)

todays update - she's still very slow and not eating much. She had 3 days of worming before we stopped I'll probably start again tomorrow since she's not showing any sign of getting better. It's very hot so I'm trying to make sure she drinks as much as possible which isnt easy. I've tried her on everything - cucumber is her go-to, but Ive put down scrambled egg (cold from the fridge) wet cat food, and some bird seed. her water is laced with probiotics and poultry spice (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003XEI8E0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and I'm replacing it throughout the day to keep it cold.

I didnt take a pic of the dropping - I was grossed out so threw it away very quickly!!!

They free range so I can't avoid earthworms, but we dont give them as treats anyway.

I'll keep you informed!! xx

I’m glad you’re going back to Flubenvet. From what she passed in that dropping it does sound as if worms are at least a large part of the problem, and until they are dealt with she won’t get any better. Leaving off in the middle of the course is not a good idea, the rest will still be in there laying eggs and taking the nourishment you’re trying to get her to eat. Yes she won’t feel very well, but it’s the worms, not the Flubenvet, that is making her feel like that. All healthy hens do have a worm burden to some extent, and can deal with it if it’s not too great, and are not affected by Flubenvet, which is an effective drug but comparatively mild in its effects on the hens.
If in doubt, why not ring your vet and ask his advice? What I’ve said is just my opinion and it might be good to find out what a proper vet thinks about it.

Hi Gemma

I find Westgate Labs are useful if you want an idea of the worm burden. You send a poop specimen and they text you or email you the outcome. Worth doing, even if its a one-off. I worm mine for a week, then send the poop sample to check it has been effective.

https://www.westgatelabs.co.uk/shop/by-animal/poultry/wg001-worm-count-kit-chickens.html

The type of worm you described, doesn't sound like tape worm, as I believe they are in segments. Roundworm looks like spaghetti. Seen this in neglected horses. Grossest thing I have seen in my life, I might add.

Agree with Marigold, that it's best sticking to the full 7 day course. Hope all goes well. I've had a problem with one of my hens, too. Mites/lice, but she seems to be on the mend now.

Hi GemmaEllen, how is Rosie today? I wondered if you’d found this article on the main Poultrykeeper site? Might be of interest.
https://poultrykeeper.com/general-chickens/worming-chickens/

Hi all,

Thanks for the link, Marigold. I can't see any worm that looks like what Rosie passed. Perhaps it wasn't a worm at all? I'm now wondering if it was a tumor or something like a lash, although the shape was so strange...

Bad news; Rose took a turn for the worse today.

She was OK this morning when Andy let them out of the coop. she got down and her crop was empty, however she didnt eat or drink anything until about an hour later, when I came down and gave her some cucumber. She didnt have much, but I left her to it for a bit, and she made her way down the garden with Pepper, and came and sat by the back door. Her bum was a mess again, so we gave her an epsom bath so I could clean her up. It was then that I noticed that her abdomen was swollen like a water balloon - ascites? - it cetainly wasnt that way when we bathed her a few days earlier, and so I dried her off and put her back in the garden to look into water belly (I've not dealt with it before) When I went back out to see her, she had collapsed onto her side. We got her up and she was staggering almost upright - exactly like the pictures I'd just seen for water belly. We set up in a little wicker box with a towel, and popped her in a shady part of the garden (under her favourite tree for sitting)

I've spoken to our vet who can't do anything for a day or so (busy and quarantine is making things harder) and I spoke to the ladies at the farm we got them from originally. They agree that not muh can be done for water belly at this stage (her comb and wattle has turned dark purple - only a tiny bit of red at the top remains, and she is doing nothing but sleeping in her little bed, barely opening her eyes, and breathing hard.) We have ordered 2 new friends for Pepper; 2 black tail POL's, which we will pick up on the 9th June.

Needless to say, given how quickly she is deteriorating (up and walking about this morning, collapsed in a basket by lunchtime) I dont think Rosie will last long enough for the vet to come and put her to sleep, and I cant do it myself (I still have nightmares over a dog attack from years ago) but the ladies at the farm assured me she wouldnt be in any pain and should just leave her somewhere familiar and keep her comfortable. I'm assuming she wont last the night.

I'm devestated, as I've never had a hen die from illness. Although we've dealt with illness, the girls always pull through and de of old age, comfortably in their sleep. I'm second guessing every decision I've made, and wondering what else I could have done to help her, but ultimately, we are going to lose her, and soon.

xx