Chicken droppings query

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Re: Chicken droppings query

Postby foxy » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:19 pm

chrismahon wrote:I think the wormer also acts on the coccidiosis and that is why it subsides. This has been mentioned in Practical Poultry recently and you can treat for it, but the treatment quantities are designed for commercial flocks so work out very expensive.


Very interesting Chris, I haven't read this months Practical Poultry, going to have to buy it now! :D
Does make sense though, parasites can cause inflammation, and so does any sub-clinical cocci in older birds, so treating one will help the other. Birds that have had cocci as growers can have some damage in their gut which simply put will be prone to inflammation and on occasion mal absorption resulting in watery, odd looking poos. Stress also has an effect on the digestive system of poultry.

Going back to your orignal question Sue the key thing from your post is they all look healthy! :-)17 :D
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Re: Chicken droppings query

Postby chrismahon » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:26 pm

Hi Foxy. The bit about coccidiosis was last month or month before I think. It's the article started 6 months ago when the magazine had a revamp format, about someone starting from scratch and his birds had just arrived but were not that healthy. So vet came in , treated problem and noticed underlying coccidiosis. He was charged over £100 for the medicine. PP format is noticably better but all the small ads have gone.
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Re: Chicken droppings query

Postby Bertie & The Chooks » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:28 pm

foxy wrote:
chrismahon wrote:I think the wormer also acts on the coccidiosis and that is why it subsides. This has been mentioned in Practical Poultry recently and you can treat for it, but the treatment quantities are designed for commercial flocks so work out very expensive.


Very interesting Chris, I haven't read this months Practical Poultry, going to have to buy it now! :D
Does make sense though, parasites can cause inflammation, and so does any sub-clinical cocci in older birds, so treating one will help the other. Birds that have had cocci as growers can have some damage in their gut which simply put will be prone to inflammation and on occasion mal absorption resulting in watery, odd looking poos. Stress also has an effect on the digestive system of poultry.

Going back to your orignal question Sue the key thing from your post is they all look healthy! :-)17 :D


I doubt that the worming treatment actually 'treats' the protozoa, but it could have a knock on affect by not providing food for them or making the environment change when the worms begin to die and break down. Not to mention boost the natural immunities of the chook so they can concentrate on the protozoa instead of the nematodes, which the wormer would be taking care of. But this is just my opinion...
Steph - Buh buh buh Bertie and The Chooks *does Elton piano solo* :D

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*I can be abrupt sometimes due to a medical condition - please don't take offense! and let me know so i can amend my reply. thank you for understanding*
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Re: Chicken droppings query

Postby foxy » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:30 pm

chrismahon wrote:Hi Foxy. The bit about coccidiosis was last month or month before I think. It's the article started 6 months ago when the magazine had a revamp format, about someone starting from scratch and his birds had just arrived but were not that healthy. So vet came in , treated problem and noticed underlying coccidiosis. He was charged over £100 for the medicine. PP format is noticably better but all the small ads have gone.


Thanks for that Chris :-)17 will have a dig through their back copies, haven't bought PP for a while not since their revamp.
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Re: Chicken droppings query

Postby foxy » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:36 pm

Bertie & The Chooks wrote:
foxy wrote:
chrismahon wrote:I think the wormer also acts on the coccidiosis and that is why it subsides. This has been mentioned in Practical Poultry recently and you can treat for it, but the treatment quantities are designed for commercial flocks so work out very expensive.


Very interesting Chris, I haven't read this months Practical Poultry, going to have to buy it now! :D
Does make sense though, parasites can cause inflammation, and so does any sub-clinical cocci in older birds, so treating one will help the other. Birds that have had cocci as growers can have some damage in their gut which simply put will be prone to inflammation and on occasion mal absorption resulting in watery, odd looking poos. Stress also has an effect on the digestive system of poultry.

Going back to your orignal question Sue the key thing from your post is they all look healthy! :-)17 :D


I doubt that the worming treatment actually 'treats' the protozoa, but it could have a knock on affect by not providing food for them or making the environment change when the worms begin to die and break down. Not to mention boost the natural immunities of the chook so they can concentrate on the protozoa instead of the nematodes, which the wormer would be taking care of. But this is just my opinion...


Sorry Bertie,I was referring to the inflammatory cascade response in the intestinal villi..
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Re: Chicken droppings query

Postby Bertie & The Chooks » Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:41 pm

foxy wrote:
Bertie & The Chooks wrote:
I doubt that the worming treatment actually 'treats' the protozoa, but it could have a knock on affect by not providing food for them or making the environment change when the worms begin to die and break down. Not to mention boost the natural immunities of the chook so they can concentrate on the protozoa instead of the nematodes, which the wormer would be taking care of. But this is just my opinion...


Sorry Bertie,I was referring to the inflammatory cascade response in the intestinal villi..


Oh sorry, I didn't mean it to look like I was replying to your comment Foxy! Your quoting just spurred a reply from me sorry... :-)05 I was replying to this comment:
chrismahon wrote:I think the wormer also acts on the coccidiosis and that is why it subsides. This has been mentioned in Practical Poultry recently and you can treat for it


:D
Steph - Buh buh buh Bertie and The Chooks *does Elton piano solo* :D

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Re: Chicken droppings query

Postby chrismahon » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:02 pm

The 'this' in PP is 'underlying coccidiosis', not evidence that the wormer has an effect on it -that's just my opinion based on my observations in our flocks. Thought I had better clarify the extracted quote above.
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Re: Chicken droppings query

Postby Bertie & The Chooks » Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:45 pm

chrismahon wrote:The 'this' in PP is 'underlying coccidiosis', not evidence that the wormer has an effect on it -that's just my opinion based on my observations in our flocks. Thought I had better clarify the extracted quote above.



No, sorry it doesn't really clarify anything for me I'm afraid. but maybe it's just me? Have a re-read and see...
chrismahon wrote:We get these from most of the flocks. They subside considerably after Flubenvet worming but are still present, so I originally thought it was an effect of worms. I now think they a sign are underlying coccidiosis in our flocks, which is quite common and they can cope with as adult birds. In chicks it is fatal and they poo as if their entire inards have come out. I think the wormer also acts on the coccidiosis and that is why it subsides. This has been mentioned in Practical Poultry recently and you can treat for it, but the treatment quantities are designed for commercial flocks so work out very expensive. Also it is now in the soil, so the treatment would have to be repeated regularly. Otherwise our birds are happy and healthy so I intend to do nothing much unless it gets far worse.


This is how it reads to me that "I think the wormer also acts on the coccidiosis and that is why it(coccidiosis) subsides" Saying that the intestinal lining poos subside after Flubenvet treatment, but are still present and that you thought they were caused by worms but now you think they are caused by underlying coccidiosis. but you still think the wormer acts on them(i.e. treats the coccidiosis).

Just to clarify how I was reading it. Not a bother really, just wanted to make it clear I personally don't think wormer will treat coccidiosis. at the end of the day it's what works for you right? :D
Steph - Buh buh buh Bertie and The Chooks *does Elton piano solo* :D

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*I can be abrupt sometimes due to a medical condition - please don't take offense! and let me know so i can amend my reply. thank you for understanding*
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Re: Chicken droppings query

Postby foxy » Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:44 pm

I think a very interesting thread, with plenty of food for thought and a good discussion going.

My opinion is when things turn out well with poultrykeepers,this is usually based on good husbandry, experience,I have also found an instinctive "gut feeling" goes a long way! ;) :D
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Re: Chicken droppings query

Postby Bertie & The Chooks » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:42 pm

foxy wrote:I think a very interesting thread, with plenty of food for thought and a good discussion going.

My opinion is when things turn out well with poultrykeepers,this is usually based on good husbandry, experience,I have also found an instinctive "gut feeling" goes a long way! ;) :D


Agreed!
Steph - Buh buh buh Bertie and The Chooks *does Elton piano solo* :D

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