Wet droppings (grey green)

Does anyone have any insight for Bonnie's condition?
I would presume that she had been eating a lot of greens on a hot day - but its been going on for a while now (a month or so), its not that hot and it is continuing through nearly a week of Flubenvet (no greens.)
When this session of worming is done I'm going to give them all a dose of Avipro Avian.
She may have been eating feathers as both Pom and Bonnie have molted - crop is always full, sometimes squishy and other times firm but consistently full. She is still within the usual range of weight though at the lower end (she normally ranges from 3.2 to 3.8 kg)
She stopped laying a few weeks ago but went into a moult so to be expected. She is a bit withdrawn but that, I think, is just the moult and keeping away from me picking her up and massaging her crop!
I'm thinking that the most likely cause is a bit of a feather blockage.
... I know it sounds like I'm answering my own question but whats worrying me is that it was about this time last year that she went off lay - fine, needs a break i thought, weeks passed and suddenly realised that her weight was in free fall. Diagnosed with a mild peritonitis (odd) but I suspect that was just a symptom or secondary problem that started with the weight loss? Totally guessing - don't know! I'm watching her much closer this year.

One of mine had very wet droppings for a while, but then she went into a heavy moult and stopped laying, for which I was thankful, as she'd started laying eggs with such thin shells they got broken or eggs with no shells at all, which is very hard on them. Since stopping laying, although the moult is hard on her, she's been fine otherwise.

Any time anyone shows signs of runny poop here (well, any of the chickens, anyway!! ) I put Oreganico in the water for a week, and I've always found that great for sorting it out.

That's reassuring as well LadyA.

I'd keep on monitoring her Rick, orps do tend to suffer through and after the moult as they have so much feather, I think it really takes it out of them. Giving her a tonic is an excellent idea, it should give her a boost. The thing I'd really keep an eye on is whether she has sour crop or an impacted crop. The crop should be full during the day but empty first thing so perhaps one determined early morning examination might be in order, then leave her alone, I imagine having feathers grow through is uncomfortable and just generally lowering. I had one bird that got sour crop with monotonous regularity, she was never a good doer.

Now I usually refrain from commenting on threads such as these because I have very little to say. Now I realise that one can become very attached to animals and want to do the best for them. Also good stockman ship is essential and if you can’t offer that then you shouldn’t be keeping animals.
Having said that however I would not ever want to make anyone feel guilty, particularly those on low incomes, for drawing a line where costs become prohibitive. For me no chicken is going to be taken to the vets with the ensuing cost. If it’s a problem I can’t cure myself then it’s chicken soup.
As I say I have no problem with people spending their money as they wish but some threads offer unrealistic solutions to health problems. If it’s a choice between a trip to the vets or a new pair of shoes for your child then the answer is obvious.
I rently garnered some criticism for mentioning that in the past whenever I had a dog die then it was double wrapped in bin bags and put out for the dustman. For me at this stage it is just dead meat. No one would suggest the the turkey carcass at Christmas should be given a woodland burial in a pet cemetery!
Sorry if these sentiments cause offence. It is nothing to do with disrespecting the living animal. It is acknowledging that the life force has gone. So when I snuff it call the knacker man. I’m perfectly happy for my body to be reincarnated as a tube of Evostik.

tbh, Hen Gen, when any of the chickens here get sick, they get 48 hours on oreganico to see if they start to turn around. If they don't, I cull them. If it's runny poop, I give them all a week on oreganico, it usually stops it, especially if (like this last time) it seems to be something to do with coming into/going out of lay. If it doesn't, then the "offender" is culled. In the early days, I did take chickens to the vet, but there isn't a good avian vet around here, so I felt like their guess was as good as mine! It might sound heartless, but I know chickens can be very ill indeed before they start showing any signs. And brown girls are prone to things like peritonitis, I've lost a few to that over the years. If I suspect peritonitis, then they are culled immediately. No point in dragging things out, it's not fair on them and causes unnecessary suffering.

Its a relief to hear that other people whose opinion I respect think along the same lines as I do. I used to feel that I had a moral obligation to keep my old hens going until they dropped off naturally. But II've come to feel that what I owe them is the best of care whilst they are healthy, happy and laying well, and then a swift end when things begin to go wrong. Because birds have such different metabolisms to mammals, cannot easily be anaethestised or operated on, and often hide illness until it's too late too help in any case, even a good vet can often only tell you as much as an experienced poultry keeper could - and will then prescribe undesirable antibiotics, in the hope they will help. On the whole, chickens get gut problems, bronchial problems, infestations or egg laying problems. The first three can largely be prevented by buying healthy stock, feeding sensibly, cleanliness, routine worming and providing airy coops with ample ventilation. Egg laying problems such as prolapse or peritonitis are not curable, and I think euthanasia is the kindest way to go. I don't find it easy, though.

However, I understand and respect the views of people who feel differently about their much-loved chickens as pets, just as I feel about my dog. If dogs only cost about £15 and i had several of them, would I be prepared to dispose of them when they got ill, rather than take them to the vet for expensive tests and treatments? In the end, does it just come down to the place the pet has in your life, and in your heart, as a companion and friend? There still comes the point when you have the responsibility to take that final, awful decision and say goodbye - it's just that this is harder to do for an animal who is truly part of the family. Some chickens do fill this need, as do many other species. So theres no ned to feel guilty, whichever camp you belong to - unless, of course you know in your heart that your chickens' sickness or demise was actually the result of neglect or lack of care on your own part.

Thanks all.(and Marigold, you posted while I was writing)
Im guessing Origanico is a probiotic LadyA?
Agree with all, Inc being made into a tube of Evostik
In my own experience, going to the vet has been part of the learning curve of knowing what is treatable or not. It's been a mixed experience - some things even a good vet can do very little (if nothing) about even if they can positively identify what is wrong.
But knowing that it's the end of the line and nothing reasonable (and affordable depending on what that amounts to) can be done is the trick!
I have not, however, been able to cull them myself so far dispute knowing the sense of it. After my last trip with Aerial when I stayed with her through the procedure I vowed not to do it again - chickens are not easy to put to sleep like a cat or dog. Not that Aeriel knew anything of the difficulty after the first couple of seconds.
I could have saved her a car journey though.
Anyway, I'm trying to avoid being in that situation, if reasonably possible, with Bonnie at the mo and, I think, her number is not up just yet!
It would be nice if she got her digestive system in order before growing a new pair of pantaloons

I do feel I should say this though - any situation of what we we would normally think of as a peritonitis (an egg peritonitis usually) is not reasonably treatable even if success is a possibility (which it almost invariably isn't.) However, I am glad that I did decide to try with Bonnie last year as it was obviously not the usual forgone conclusion. It did involve antibiotics (as pills so only she had them) but we are not in a global mess because of that kind of use. We are in a mess because the poultry industry made a routine habit of treating 20,000 bird flocks as a precaution (and pigs, and sheep, and cows, and humans with a bit of a cold) right through the 50's, 60's and 70's and dumping the surplus and arisings down the drain. They wouldn't have been impressed by the soft notion of a pet chicken either.
Anyway. There is an evolutionary reason for grief so its pretty unavoidable. Thats a lot of plastic in the landfill. Keeping chickens is a delight. I don't really get social media I think. XXX

Oreganico (and Herban) is a strong oregano oil. Oregano oil has natural antibiotic properties. It may be coincidence, but it does seem to have been helpful several times in clearing up runny tummies. I suppose because there wasn't a serious underlying cause.

Thanks LadyA. It must be down to the wrong gut bacteria for some reason. Her crop has been going down but there is a ball of something in there and I'm thinking feathers still.) You mean antibacterial properties! Sounds good!

rick said:

Thanks LadyA. It must be down to the wrong gut bacteria for some reason. Her crop has been going down but there is a ball of something in there and I'm thinking feathers still.) You mean antibacterial properties! Sounds good!

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Yes, I meant antibacterial! Got auto "corrected"! 01

rick said:

Anyway. There is an evolutionary reason for grief so its pretty unavoidable. Thats a lot of plastic in the landfill. Keeping chickens is a delight. I don't really get social media I think. XXX

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That's a very perceptive statement, Rick, says it all I think. I do care for my chickens - a lot - I like to see them adding life to the garden, and observing the way they get on together, I do my best for them, and I'm sorry when they go. But they're sort of part way to being farm animals, and eggs are the main reason they're there. Whereas I look at my beautiful little 5-year-old dog, and think 'another 10 years, with luck... when you go, it will hit me really hard.'

Marigold said:

rick said:

Anyway. There is an evolutionary reason for grief so its pretty unavoidable. Thats a lot of plastic in the landfill. Keeping chickens is a delight. I don't really get social media I think. XXX

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That's a very perceptive statement, Rick, says it all I think. I do care for my chickens - a lot - I like to see them adding life to the garden, and observing the way they get on together, I do my best for them, and I'm sorry when they go. But they're sort of part way to being farm animals, and eggs are the main reason they're there. Whereas I look at my beautiful little 5-year-old dog, and think 'another 10 years, with luck... when you go, it will hit me really hard.'

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I suppose dogs (unless they are purely working dogs) and cats are mostly companions and pets, we feel their loss more. As I type, Toria, my tortie cat (not a cuddler as a rule) is curled up at my lower back, snoozing. As you say, I do care for my chickens, and I cry buckets over every one I have to cull, but they are not pets, not any more. I used to treat them as pets, but that was too heartbreaking, when they'd have names, and I knew them well enough that I could distinguish each brown girl from the other at a glance. Then, I did tend to hang on too long when in my heart, I knew one really had reached her time. Now, the chickens are well looked after, but if I suspect they are ill beyond some minor, passing thing, then they are culled quickly.

We go the same way, see if it is some weird 24 hour thing, amazing how a hen can look like it's at deaths door one night and absolutely fine the next day, usually there is a fine old mess under the perch though. If a hen doesn't get well we usually cull it, after all they can't tell us if they are actually suffering apart from looking miserable and I would hate the thought of one being in pain and wasting away in distress. We have the room to keep a few old timers at the moment the Bluebelle with attitude and a couple of Light Sussex aged 6 & 5, one of whom recovered from a prolapse at a year old.
Ours get put in old feed sack and put in the incerator when the time comes

Well her (still rather wet) droppings are brown again rather than grey/green so thats a step in the right direction! Ive ordered some oregano prep but meanwhile they are off the flubenvet and have had avipro on their breakfast mash.

They were all heavier in May, well except Mo and Linden (who makes a handy 1kg weight.) Bonnie was a bit podgy even. Pom, Lulu and Bonnie have all lost half a kilo since then - worming was due maybe - all drinking more water in the summer maybe?? Bonnie and Pom are moulting but Lulu isn't.
I don't really get the farm animal thing Marigold - practically, I know what you all mean about the life expectancy of a hen, the not very nice and un-treatable ways they can go without timely intervention. And farm animals - I'm not banging a vegetarian drum here - what would the World do without chickens as a food source? OK, I can choose pretty freely what I eat but thats because I'm very lucky! But my chickens, to me, don't have farm animal status.
They're not friends. I don't presume them to have any such notion themselves so it would be a bit one sided! It is funny how they become individuals, to the point of telling at a glance one from the other when they would look identical (well not all) to someone that didn't know them. We all have a particular liking for birds in all their forms - what is it with beaks and feathers and those funny walks? Knowing them as individuals is rewarding - at a bit of a price!

I remembered this morning I can measure her body temperature to rule out peritonitis - with relief its in normal range at 40.8 deg C.
I know I'm annoying some with hand wringing and blow by blow accounts but I don't see what else a Chickens Health section is for!

I thought that a runny bottom when on Flubenvet was part of the treatment's way of evicting dead worms. I wouldn't worry unless it continues after the course of Flubenvet finishes.

How has she been getting on over the weekend, Rick?
Ad i don't think anyone has been annoyed by any of your postings - as you say, we're all here to learn, and to ask for help when needed.

Thanks. I don't want to turn a crisis into a drama and there hasn't been much change other than me considering various things - like what the cause is and how to be as swift as possible if necessary. Bonnie is as lively as any hen half way through a moult but her weight, which is still slowly but steadily falling, is looking like a repeat of what happened last time - ending in a high temperature and that strange, barely identifiable peritonitis. I caught it too late then so my worry mainly is how to turn it around before getting into that situation.
So, the Oreganico is good stuff. While the consistency of her droppings hasn't changed much - there is, I think, sign that the completely wrong bacteria in her digestive tract have subsided. Also, what has helped is massaging her crop every evening when she has gone to roost on the perch because it gets some food moved around the blockage which tends to settle to the bottom during the day - I think.
But there is defiantly something in there as I went out this morning while they were still on the perch and there is about a third of a crop of firm matter left. So tomorrow morning we are booked into the vet - possibly to have her crop emptied, I'll see how it pans out.
Bonnie came from the end of season, difficult to sell pen. I knew that was what it was from previous experience but still went for it! My fault but we kind of had an arrangement from there in and it didn't necessarily involve her being easy. Still, if she is full of her own feather fluff then we are going to need a better plan for next time.

It'll be interesting to hear what the vet has to say, especially if it turns out to be feather related. Is she still moulting, or through the worst by now?

No, it was a couple of weeks ago when there were drifts of feathers to sweep up in the morning although there is a few new ones. She is growing out her pins at the moment. Has had some peeled cucumber and water for breakfast (to soften the contents of her crop) while waiting in the dog crate to go. I'll be bringing her back this morning whatever the conclusion but I don't think it will be anything immediate. She is full of attitude about being taken out of the run at the moment.

The vet didn't want to empty her crop because her temperature was a bit high (41.8) but then she was quite flustered. I'll take it again this evening when she has settled back down in the run. No fluid at all in her body cavity and weight has gone up a little in the past couple of days.
To continue massaging with 0.5ml of paraffin oil each day and see if how she is doing in a weeks time.