Baytril - new rules?

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Marigold
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Re: Baytril - new rules?

Post by Marigold »

Does anyone know why the advice is that you can never again eat any eggs ever laid by a bird treated with Baytril? I can see that there would have to be a withdrawal period, maybe quite a lengthy one, but don't understand what permanent difference it would make to her eggs, maybe months or even years later.
podstable
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Re: Baytril - new rules?

Post by podstable »

Marigold---- My guess is it probably has no long term affect BUT as not licensed for poultry this has never been shown/proven to be so.There are plenty of other antibiotics available that are approved for use in poultry with appropriate data on side effects . Ros
VALBURNHAM
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Re: Baytril - new rules?

Post by VALBURNHAM »

it is very strange. I have just got out my baytril 10% given by a vet who did not mention that you were never to eat the eggs again just that there was a withdrawal period. The actual box the abs came in says oral solution for Poultry. I have been reading all the small print and it actually says that you can eat the meat of the chicken after an eight day withdrawal period which is probably the place the vet took the advise from. On closer inspection the small print says do not use in poultry producing eggs. How strange is that you can eat the meat but you cant eat the eggs.
On another issue an avian vet treated one of my hens for parasites with a product not licensed for poultry he pointed this out to me and said because it was not licensed I must not eat the eggs for 28 days. Going by the rule if its not licensed we should never eat the eggs does this mean that this advise was wrong. Gosh is a minefield. Hopefully its just a precaution as iv eaten many eggs laid by my hen that was treated with baytril.
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chrismahon
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Re: Baytril - new rules?

Post by chrismahon »

Even with the faintest possibility of microscopic traces of Baytril in the eggs they have got to be far better for you eaten fresh than shop eggs ever could be, that can be a month old. I read that after 3 days the vitamins start to break down, which is probably why eggs over 9 days old have very poor hatching rates. You have also got to consider that the environment we live in has been poisoned by DDT. Never mentioned now though. The sunlight has got uVC in it because the Ozone layer is so thin, which is why factor 30 has replaced factor 5. What they don't tell you is that it is far worse than that as the hole in the Ozone layer sometimes passes over North half of Britain it is now so big and really you should stay inside then. So the last thing I will be worrying about is the possibility of an infinitesimal amount of Baytril in my poached eggs on toast breakfast.
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Tim
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Re: Baytril - new rules?

Post by Tim »

I've heard there are calls for vets to use less antibiotics and was talking to chickenvet about this at the Federation. As I understood it, Baytril was not licensed for use in chickens but a vet can prescribe it off license if there is no suitable alternative, under their clinical judgement.

I will drop them an email and ask and get back to you as it would be well worth knowing if anything has changed.
karminski
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Re: Baytril - new rules?

Post by karminski »

i made the decision a while back to just have my girls p.t.s if they are unwell, there have been times when i have had baytril etc and the birds were still very poorly that i had to have them p.t.s or they died within days or hours of going to the vets now i kinda feel its a waste of £40-£50 that its kinder to have them p.t.s some may say its harsh but my girls have all lived very happy lifes and the last thing i want is for them to be ill and suffer. with you on your last post chris :lol: :lol:
pennyblack chooks
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Re: Baytril - new rules?

Post by pennyblack chooks »

Though the amounts of baytril would be small they could be cumulative????? Is it??? And if giving eggs away as I do (as we know they are so noticeably superior to anything shop bought people are thrilled to have them) then what about the impact on those people. If I only had one or two hens and kept all my own eggs for our consumption only then I guess that's our own risk. That's what made the decision for me with 7 hens i like to give some of our eggs now and again to appreciative friends and neighbours so for me it will be what I went for before - cephacare or the equivalent as advised by my vet.

It certainly is a minefield.
pennyblackchooks
....chooks with attitude - Maggie, Fliss, Belle, Pheobe, Fanny Ann, Tilly, Edna and their husband Herb
VALBURNHAM
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Re: Baytril - new rules?

Post by VALBURNHAM »

I think probably given this new info I will not give eggs from my dorking to neighbours but will risk it for myself. I am a bit of a softy so should I be told that if I give baytril the eggs may never be eaten again but that baytril was the only option I would still go for the baytril and bin all the eggs. As long as I consider my girls have good quality of life eggs are secondary to me. I do appreciate that others have a different opinion and cannot afford this as an option. Gosh I guess one day I will have a whole family of none egg layers retiring in my garden.
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foxy
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Re: Baytril - new rules?

Post by foxy »

pennyblack chooks wrote:Though the amounts of baytril would be small they could be cumulative????? Is it??? And if giving eggs away as I do (as we know they are so noticeably superior to anything shop bought people are thrilled to have them) then what about the impact on those people. If I only had one or two hens and kept all my own eggs for our consumption only then I guess that's our own risk. That's what made the decision for me with 7 hens i like to give some of our eggs now and again to appreciative friends and neighbours so for me it will be what I went for before - cephacare or the equivalent as advised by my vet.

It certainly is a minefield.
There is enough clinical evidence demonstrating drug clearance from all tissues and egg contents in poultry. It is very difficult for a vet to give definitive advice on a drug which is not licensed for an indication or animal. To be on the safe side they will have to quote either not (forever) to consume eggs of a treated egg layer,or take a more pragmatic approach which is that clinical evidence demonstrates that the drug is cleared at 7 or 10 days therefore to be on the safe side call it 14 days or maybe 28 days. As restrictions grow tighter, so vets will find it increasingly difficult to justify some off license prescribing.
pennyblack chooks
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Re: Baytril - new rules?

Post by pennyblack chooks »

foxy wrote: There is enough clinical evidence demonstrating drug clearance from all tissues and egg contents in poultry. It is very difficult for a vet to give definitive advice on a drug which is not licensed for an indication or animal. To be on the safe side they will have to quote either not (forever) to consume eggs of a treated egg layer,or take a more pragmatic approach which is that clinical evidence demonstrates that the drug is cleared at 7 or 10 days therefore to be on the safe side call it 14 days or maybe 28 days. As restrictions grow tighter, so vets will find it increasingly difficult to justify some off license prescribing.
so this suggests then baytril is not cumulative and that it could be deemed safe to eat eggs after a number of days or weeks have elapsed.....and that some vets will say this and some will simply say 'never'.

As you say, it just makes it harder and harder for vets to justify prescribing such medicines i guess because they will have to take responsibility for any repercussions.

I wonder how long cephacare as a currently acceptable antibiotic (given egg withdrawal for length of treatment and for 7 days after) will last. Can't remember what she said about it (other than above) when we discussed the two.
pennyblackchooks
....chooks with attitude - Maggie, Fliss, Belle, Pheobe, Fanny Ann, Tilly, Edna and their husband Herb
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