Pen floor advice

[hip chick]

Im looking for some advice/Ideas for my 4 silkies winter pen please.
The pen is a 12ftx12ft wooden frame covered from top to bottom in mesh with a roof on. It currently has a pebbled floor which obviously isn't suitable for chickens to walk on. Would they be happy if we concreted the floor and just had shavings on top. We would have to sort a dustbath area for them, but on dry days they would still come out and have the run of the garden too.
Just thinking the concrete makes a good base for stopping vermin etc digging under, just not sure if the chickens would like it

Any advice appreciated

 

[Marigold]

I would avoid concrete for several reasons. It's hard and cold and doesn't drain, so even if the run has a roof there will always be damp patches in wet weather where rain blows in sideways. Concreting that quite large area would be hard work, given that you'd have to dig it out first and then mix it. You would end up with a big slab of concrete in your garden, which would be there forever whether or not you (or a future purchaser of your house) still wanted to keep chickens on it. If you really wanted hard standing to prevent vermin from below, concrete slabs on a bed of sand would be easier to put in and could be removed if you changed your mind.
When we built my run, we laid 1/2" galvanised mesh over the whole floor area and wired this about 15-20cms up the sides all round. On top of this we laid permeable weed proofing membrane to protect the chickens' feet from the mesh and to give good drainage. Then I added a good layer of Aubiose (shredded hemp, sold as horse bedding, extremely absorbent, easy to poo pick, warm and soft for the hens to walk on and they love scratching in it.) Seven years later, the first lot of membrane was still intact this Spring, when I had a complete clean-up of the run before getting a new generation of chickens, and I replaced it with a clean new sheet for less than £15. Whilst the run was empty of hens, I left a pot of corn out, which was untouched for several days although I knew there were rats under a neighbour's shed next to the run, so the mesh was still working well.
You do need to get lots of metal tent pegs to fix the mesh down flat, unless your run floor is perfectly flat, which ours wasn't. Also plenty more metal pegs to fasten the membrane down round the sides and into the corners; plastic fixing pegs won't go through the 1/2" mesh underneath. These are available quite cheaply on Ebay, as is wide membrane which will go right across the run in one piece. For a 12ft run, get a piece 4 metres by 5 metres, to allow for folding under the ends to prevent fraying when they scratch around.
A lot of us have found that Aubiose is better than shavings, being much more absorbent. If you can find a local stockist from this list,
http://www.aubiose.co.uk/stockists.php you might be able to avoid high carriage charges by collecting a couple of bales in a car when needed. Two or three bales would start you off with a nice thick layer on the floor and a spare one for topping up as it gets removed when you pick up poo. It's good in the nestboxes and coop as well.

 

[rick]

Ah. My own take on it - slow to post!

Concrete is fine and easy to sweep. It would be a bit rough permanently on its own but with a softer layer on top it keeps their claws trimmed when they scratch around. Horse bedding like Auboise is popular but you will probably want to put some planks (8" or so) around the bottom edge to contain it.

... I have block paving but that was down already before the run was built (with two courses of brick as a low wall around the bottom.) Block or slabs are still permeable so get round the pooling problem Marigold pointed out.

 

[hip chick]

Hi thank you for responses. The pen would be watertight as we plan to cover the meshed sides in plastic sheeting for the winter to stop rain/wind getting in. We've also thought for drainage to put vertical piping in the corners which would have drain covers on so we could still hose out and the water still escape. The flags may still be a better idea though, and i'll look into the bedding suggested as I haven't heard of that. Thank you

 

[LadyA]

My big run is paving slabs, with weldmesh underneath. I just continued the weldmesh walls in under the floor. It has stopped the rats getting into the run, but unfortunately, hasn't stopped them tunnelling beneath! There are tunnels here and there under the floor, so eventually, what happens is that the sand under the slab falls into the tunnel, and the slab becomes a bit wobbly! So, once or twice, I've had to lift individual slabs and put more sand underneath. I use shavings on top of the slabs and have a kickboard all around the sides. Has worked well now for many years.

 

[Marigold]

Hi thank you for responses. The pen would be watertight as we plan to cover the meshed sides in plastic sheeting for the winter to stop rain/wind getting in. We've also thought for drainage to put vertical piping in the corners which would have drain covers on so we could still hose out and the water still escape. The flags may still be a better idea though, and i'll look into the bedding suggested as I haven't heard of that. Thank you

If you hose down a dirty run on a solid base, the muck has to go somewhere, and what happens is that it piles up as sludge wherever you've hosed it to. With a roofed run and absorbent bedding, you should never need to do this, whatever type of base you use. Just put down Aubiose, do a daily 2-minute poo pick, and top up the bedding when necessary. Even when Aubiose gets wet when rain drives in, it never goes mouldy and dries out easily.
I used to use wooden battens to fix clear plastic tarpaulins round the sides of my run in winter, and they did help as windbreaks and also prevented driving rain from getting in. The downside was noisy flapping against the mesh in high winds, and a tendency to break free and take off in the worst gales. Last year I changed them for willow screening, which I now have round three sides of the run, fixed by staples to the wooden framework round the edges, and by cable ties through the mesh in the middle. This is much better as it's an effective windbreak and rain shield, which also gives cool filtered shaded in summer. The run is camouflaged and fits into the view of the garden on the covered sides, and the hens have a long perch on the open side where they can sit and enjoy the view.
This is the stuff, you can get different heights but it's best to get whatever height is slightly too short for your run sides, as it's difficult to cut if it's too high. https://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_i_4_16?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=willow+screening+2m+high&sprefix=willow+screening%2Caps%2C138&crid=2LRFE8WF2ZKXC
Don't get reed screening, its much too fragile to do the job and last a long time.

 

[hip chick]

Marigold i,ve not been able to open your links but what a brilliant idea for the willow screening for all the reasons you mentioned. Ive just had a look and we could easily purchase what we needed within our budget. Thank you so much, looks like we're gonna go with that

 

[Marigold]

Sorry about that, the link does work for me, but you only have to go on Amazon or Ebay and search for Willow Screening. Get plenty of biggish staples, and also cable ties as well, you need one person to push them through from inside and another person outside to fasten them, then trim off the surplus. Fix the screening to the outside of the mesh, so it stays flat against the sides in high winds. It actually strengthens the run sides once firmly fixed in place, whilst letting air through as well.

 

[hip chick]

Thanks Marigold we,ve just ordered it

 

[hip chick]

Sorry but another question re the membrane. Dont the chickens eventually scratch through it 19

 

[Marigold]

Well, as I said, mine was intact after seven years' use. It's very hardwearing stuff and they seem to do all their scratching in the Aubiose on top. I only replaced it because I wanted everything totally clean and fresh for a new batch of chickens, and it's inexpensive anyway. It also has the advantage that they can't scratch earth up into it, so you only have to deal with the droppings.

 

[rick]

It's similar to using geotextile under a bark mulch path. If laid flat on well prepared firm ground and kept covered it should be good for 20 years.
Sunlight degrades it if left exposed for too long.

 

[Marigold]

Another reason why I replaced it was because initially I couldn't find membrane wide enough to go right across in one strip, but now it's available in all sorts of widths on Ebay.

 

[Tweetypie]

We discovered a mole digging up the inside of the run yesterday. :-( The end sections are concrete slabs and the middle section is just bare soil. Anyhow, we have now put slabs down in the middle section, with a layer of thick rubber sheeting on top, as their feeders are in that part and I don't want mould and fungus growing in the cracks of the slabs. At least it is simple to wash down, plus they are only in it overnight and they have their lovely coops to sleep in.

As for the mole.... I need to find the main entrance and block it somehow. I don't want mole hills in my garden.

 

[LadyA]

We discovered a mole digging up the inside of the run yesterday. :-( The end sections are concrete slabs and the middle section is just bare soil. Anyhow, we have now put slabs down in the middle section, with a layer of thick rubber sheeting on top, as their feeders are in that part and I don't want mould and fungus growing in the cracks of the slabs. At least it is simple to wash down, plus they are only in it overnight and they have their lovely coops to sleep in.

As for the mole.... I need to find the main entrance and block it somehow. I don't want mole hills in my garden.

I remember I was astonished when a UK friend posted a pic on facebook of a dead mole. I had never realised they were so small. I had only known moles in stories, like The Wind in the Willows, and I had always thought that moles were about the size of a small rabbit! We don't have moles in Ireland, and I'd seen pics of molehills in people's lawns, and judging from the size of those, I couldn't believe it when I saw how tiny they are! We don't have weasels (although stoats are very similar) either, or dormice.

 

[Marigold]

I expect moles, like other small mammals dependent on worms etc, are getting a bit desperate at the moment, with the ground so dry and hard. All the worms must be down really deep below ground. It's possible that the one you found was on its last legs, Tweetiepie, - like if one sees a hedgehog wandering about in the open, in daylight. Moles are probably not so likely to be wrecking your lawn until it gets softer - they'd need an electric drill attachment to get through the soil on what's left of our lawn.

 

[Tangerine daisy]

We don't have moles in Ireland,

Well I never knew that!